In this episode, we dive deep into the strategies that can transform your podcast listeners into high-paying clients. Our guest, Jonathan Goodman, shares his proven system that has helped him build a coaching empire and generate millions in revenue. If you're tired of chasing likes and want to learn how to create meaningful, revenue-generating conversations, this episode is for you!
What You'll Learn:
- The common mistakes people make when promoting their podcast on social media.
- Why social media fame can be a trap and what actually matters for business growth.
- Jonathan's exact systems that generate hundreds of high-ticket sales conversations daily.
- How to use Instagram stories to drive engagement and start consultative sales conversations.
- The importance of nurturing your audience and building a book of business.
- How to leverage podcast content to support and grow your coaching business.
🚀 Get 7 FREE Linkedin Content Templates 👉 https://bit.ly/7linkedintemplates
🤯 Join the LinkedIn Creator Community 👉https://www.brand30.io/linkedin-creator-course
🔗 Free LinkedIn Course 👉 https://www.brand30.io/free-training
📢 Stay Connected with Us:
Don't forget to subscribe for more inspiring interviews and startup stories.
- Follow me on X (Formerly Twitter): https://twitter.com/andymewborn
- Follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amewborn
- Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andy.mewborn
📩 Feedback & Contact:
We value your feedback and questions! Leave us a comment below or reach out at: andy@distribute.so
🤝 Production Partner: https://bio.link/ytorbit
🎙️ About the Channel:
Our channel is dedicated to uncovering the stories of entrepreneurs who are changing the game. From tech innovators to wellness pioneers, we bring you the insights and behind-the-scenes looks at the journeys of today's top founders.
🔔 Hit the bell icon to stay updated with our latest content and dive into the world of entrepreneurship with us! 🔔
Jonathan:
What everybody does wrong with promoting their podcast on social media is they create these clips from the podcast or they put like this nice, pretty kind of photo on their Instagram feed. It's like, none of that shit works. It's not going to get anybody to listen to the podcast. The clips maybe might build you like an Instagram audience, but they're not going to actually bring that audience to your podcast.
Andy: From 250,000 Facebook followers to $35 million in revenue. Here's what most experts won't tell you. Social media fame is kind of a trap and my guest today built a coaching empire by focusing on what actually matters. And it's not what you think. So in the next 45 minutes, Jonathan Goodman reveals the exact systems that generate hundreds of high ticket sales conversations every single day without depending on algorithms or virality. Now, if you're tired of dancing for likes while your bank account stays empty, You need to hear this. And as always, please subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting app. So the next time we drop an episode, you are the first to get notified. Thank you so much. And here we have Jonathan Goodman. John, my man, the personal training guy on the line, y'all. Can you hear me? OK, there you are. Can you hear me OK? I didn't yeah, I didn't hear you at the beginning, but I just said we've got the personal training God on the line, my man. That's all I said.
Jonathan: Oh, thank you.
Andy: Thank you. Where are you at right now?
Jonathan: You're clearly you're clearly you're a musician. I can hear it in your voice.
Andy: Yeah. You don't want to hear me singing, though, man. I don't know. I can play the guitar well, but my voice is I let someone else do that part, you know? Oh, seriously? Yeah. I don't do the voice stuff. Hell no. No, you don't want to hear that part. It's not good. So yeah, where are you at in the world right now? I'm in Toronto. You're in Toronto.
Jonathan: I'm in my home in Toronto. I've got like a, we built kind of a home office, a pod, um, just outside of my house. So I'm out here. It's nice to record it. Um, I was in New York yesterday for the day doing live, uh, live podcasts and left at left on a 7am flight came home on an 8pm flight. buzzed around the city, did a bunch of recordings and stuff.
Andy: So, uh, you know, I want to, I want to do an in-person studio in Austin here shortly. Like when people stop by what, what's the vibe with you. And by the way, we're recording, we just kind of lose as a conversation and get going. So just FYI. Yeah. How's the vibe change for you for the live versus the virtual? You know, you sense a big difference.
Jonathan: Night and day. Way different. I mean, as a guest, as a guest, there's something about, cause a lot of the time when you do these podcasts, you don't know the other person that well. Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes there'll be a buddy, but sometimes we'll do like a, like, like a planning call. So we'll get to know each other a little bit that way. Most of the time, most of the time you meet the person, when you sign up.
Andy: Yeah, like we just met, what's up?
Jonathan: So there's something to be said about slapping hands, a hello, a little bit of small talk beforehand. But then the conversation itself, I don't know why this is, but I find that I settle into being much more emotive and I feel much more from the other person. energetically, both good and bad. Like, they're like, oh, they're digging this or like, oh, we're really connecting or maybe we're not and we need to shift. I can't sense that the same way, really online a lot of the time. And also just, I mean, I enjoy it more. But it's also a much bigger pain in the ass.
Andy: Like, yeah. Cause you got to like fly to the city, do a, you know, go to the location. Right. Yeah.
Jonathan: As a guest, but also as a host. Yeah. You you're much more limited in your guests. It takes way longer. You can't just click on five minutes before and click off. You got to set up the studio. You got to be there. I mean, we, we recorded one yesterday. It was a full two hour recording in person in a studio. There's two production people that are there like behind like the production window. Yeah, yeah. Four cameras, two mics. One of the producers came out and took stills with the camera as we were shooting multiple times. Like, that's, everything's there in the studio, but it's still an hour or so to set up and an hour or so to take down. Not to mention, of course, the expense and the complexity and everything like that. Yeah. And, uh, and so I think it has to do with what the goals are really of the, of the podcaster. Yeah. And then the other one that I did was in Long Island.
Andy: So like, yeah. Long Island is a pain in the ass to get to man. The traffic. Yeah.
Jonathan: So what guests is this guy possibly going to get on his podcast?
Andy: Yeah, you know, you're in Austin, that's fine.
Jonathan: I'm in Austin the end of December for three days to record podcasts like I'm going to Austin for three days staying at a friend's house, borrowing his car and recording podcasts for three days.
Andy: Okay. There you go.
Jonathan: There you go.
Andy: Yeah. And so let me, let me say, cause you're, you're like one of the top coaches. So let me ask you this, like, what's the strategy with the podcast, right? Like, um, you know, there's the obvious answer, but I want to hear kind of you, how you're implementing this into your strategy. Um, today it's kind of meta cause you know, you weren't doing this and then I'm trying to learn your strategy here as well. But, um, Tell me about that, right? Like what, cause you're launching a new book soon. I'm guessing it has to do with that, you know, walk us through that.
Jonathan: So it's different. So I'll tell you how we use the podcast to grow the coaching business. It's actually phenomenally successful and repeatable.
Andy: I want to learn this. Yes.
Jonathan: And reliable.
Andy: Okay.
Jonathan: And it supports, it's a flywheel. It supports and grows the podcast. It books us calls and it nurtures people along the podcast and it showcases success and it leverages content from the coaching program for the podcast. It's actually beautiful. Like we stumbled upon it and then we just leaned into it. Okay. But I'll start, I'll start with us.
Andy: Yeah. Cause our crowd is go to market people, right? So they're, they're, they want to learn your tactics.
Jonathan: They will, they will be obsessed with this. What I will say though, first beforehand for me personally is I believe very strongly that there needs to be one thing that's the priority. And so for me, my priority is my authorship. Now that's changed. Like I don't need to make money anymore. And so that's my career now is authorship. I take it more seriously than I take anything else. Okay. And so about 80 to 90% of my time on any given week is committed to my books and writing. I work on all of the other businesses that I have give or take five hours a week. So the podcast, the reason that I say that is the primary purpose of the podcast for me is actually to workshop and test and discuss material from my books, to write better books. That's the goal of the podcast. So I have, it forces me to be prepared with material that I'm writing in my books to present on the podcast every week. I was a personal trainer. I understand the importance of external accountability of somebody waiting there who cares for you, that you need to show up prepared to take action. And so I've designed that with two co-hosts on the podcast, And what I also have done with the podcast is, you know, in order to write good books, I've got to get out of my own head. I've got to get out of my own biases, my own backgrounds and stuff like that. And so I'm a middle to upper class upbringing, white Jewish guy from Toronto. I think one way, right? My background is one way. I know certain people, I'm surrounded by certain people. Well, one of my co-hosts, Amber, is a single mom. Her son is very far along the spectrum. She's the daughter of a military family in the Bible Belt in South Carolina, a white woman. And then Ren, my other co-host, is a black guy, son of a preacher from North Carolina. Wow. That's and so what I've what I've done is designed this system to be able to get to be able to kind of shine light on as many blind spots as I have. Yeah, with the material, but and get their feedback and stories and things like that. So that's number one.
Andy: You want to you want like, you want the gold of how the masterclass man I want the class because I'm like taking notes right now. Actually, I'm like, Okay. What the hell is John doing here? John's doing 35 million revenue, 200,000 customers. John knows what he's doing for those listening.
Jonathan: So, okay. Okay. So this is something that I've never shared anywhere publicly before ever these systems. And I don't see anybody else doing this.
Andy: Okay.
Jonathan: So So I will try to be as focused as I can with this system because I've never like practice discussing it. Okay. Here's what you do. On your podcast, you speak about in detail, the biggest problems that your people are going to have that are signing up for your services. So, you know, how to gain 50,000 followers in 30 days, my system, right? Or how to deal with the most common sales objections, or here's a five-step sales thing, whatever you do, right? And you basically put these episodes on your podcast first. And then you go to your Instagram or whatever social media you use, but we use Instagram. And then you go to your Instagram And you can test all of them. So on a single story slide, we tease the topic. What everybody does wrong with promoting their podcast on social media is they create these clips from the podcast or they put like this nice pretty kind of photo on their Instagram feed. It's like none of that shit works. It's not going to get anybody to listen to the podcast. The clips maybe might build you like an Instagram audience, but they're not going to actually bring that audience to your podcast. And you also, most notably, if you own a coaching business, you're not starting conversations through the use of that content. Consultative conversations that you're going to then move into a phone call and take it off. So what we do is we, we write based off of the hook, a very quick teaser. I can actually, let me, let me open this up. I'll give you, I'll give you everything here. I'll give you the ones.
Andy: You know, I think you can share your screen on Riverside.
Jonathan: Well, I'll just read you. I'll just read you.
Andy: I'll read it and I can look and add it to the pot later or something on the, on the slides.
Jonathan: Cause we just did this. I mean, we do this every week.
Andy: And so you're testing the hook basically for a podcast episode.
Jonathan: Well, what you're doing is you already have the podcast episode, but you don't necessarily know the hook and you don't necessarily know which one is going to hit. But to be honest, it really doesn't matter because all you're doing over time is because you're already creating this podcast content. What you're doing is you're testing, which ones are great, which ones convert into the most conversations. And then also if you're, good enough and you can capture the data well enough. It's not necessarily which ones create the most conversations in your Instagram, right? It's actually the ones which convert to the highest quality customers. And then when you know that you can reuse your winners and throw out your, your losers pretty often. So, uh, what we will do, I'm just trying to find a good one here. Cause I'm, I'm going through like my conversations with a person who helps me on this. We, we actually get to the point reasonably often. And we're in that point right now where we can't do this every week. Like we plan to, because we just booked too many calls.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: Uh, which is a good problem to have. So, okay. Here's one that worked pretty well that we put a couple of weeks ago. This was for a podcast episode that went live like six months ago. So what our sales team does is our sales team says, Hey, we're getting these objections or these types of people. They're really great for the program. We'd like to get more of them or, Hey, we're getting these types of people with these objections. We'd love a piece of content to be able to send to them. Right. And so they help dictate the topics. And then what we'll do is we'll write a very quick Instagram story and like literally no pictures, no nothing. It's text. It's black text on a white background for the story. And there's always every piece of content has a three part formula to me, which is just hook, story, punch, hook, story, punch, hook, story, punch. Like that's it. One, two, three. And you got to keep it really, really short. So the hook, uh, this, this one was, you don't need to get half naked on Instagram to make money as an online coach.
Andy: Oh, that's good. Yeah.
Jonathan: It's not enough to be rich with likes. If you're poor with dollars, I recorded a podcast on how to get social media to work for you. Reply to this story with quotes, social media for the link to listen. That's the entire story. Right. And then what happens? is people then reply like mad to your story.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: Because there's so much engagement on your story. And what's important is only one slide. You don't put stories before this, you don't put stories after this. Just one story slide for 24 hours. And then what happens is the completion rate of the story is really, really high, which tells Instagram that people cared about it. And because the engagement is so high, so many people are responding to it. That story slide is going to get five to 10 times more views than other story slides that you put up. So you're actually going to get tons of organic reach from that story slide. People then respond with social media, right? Um, whatever you want to call the person in this position, DM setter, right? Whatever you want to call the person in that position, then immediately responds with, Hey, awesome. Like something that somebody taught me years back that I've taken in is. You have to sell the next step. Everything that you do, you have to sell the next step. So it's not enough to just send them the link because like, Hey, excited for you to listen to this episode and finally learn. how to make money on Instagram by being your genuine self, whatever, right? Here's the link. And then another message immediately afterwards. And these messages change, but they're all the same kind of thing. Also, I'm curious, what are you hoping that this is going to help with? Also, Hey, I'm curious. Do you have an online training business? Hey, I'm curious. Are you, interested in increasing your sales, whatever, right? And you can test those appeals and see which ones get the most. Now you're in a consultative sales conversation in the DMs from this piece of content. Even if the person doesn't respond, they're still going to be nurtured through a podcast episode. They're still going to get on your podcast, hopefully like it, right? Maybe Yeah. People are different. Like some people want to quietly follow you for a while before talking to you. Some people are ready right now. This is like the Chet Holmes pyramid. Three to 5% of your audience is ready to buy right now.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: Yeah. 10% is maybe open to it. The rest of it aren't even thinking about it. And so what you have to do is you have to design a system that allows people to passively watch for a long time. And the DM team then builds a book of business like any sales team. They build a book of business from these conversations and they'll all of our podcast episodes that go live or case studies or things like that. They'll tag them and they'll tag them as for being, Oh, you know, this is objections. This is for people interested in social media growth. This is for people who are looking to scale, who already have, you know, we're making whatever 5,000 bucks. You need to make 20, whatever they're tagging it as then. If we need to fill the calendars that week, they'll go back and do follow-up. And they have their lead list, and they know what all of these leads are interested in based off of what they responded with. Hey, Andy, was just thinking of you. John actually just published a case study with Jeff. who reminded me a lot of you. He also has 15,000 Instagram followers, but can't figure out how to charge more than $50 a month. Would you like the link to listen?
Andy: Nice. Okay. So, wow. Okay. So you're using story.
Jonathan: I'm not even done the system yet.
Andy: Okay. It's killer. Okay. This is, I never thought of using Instagram stories to do this stuff.
Jonathan: So this is well, so it starts, it starts with Instagram stories. So, so we have all these podcast episodes, right. And our sales team will use them as nurturance. That's pretty straightforward how you do that. Even, you know, we have a massive case study page of like 200 videos. Uh, all of them, all of those videos on that page, it's all on the same page just for like the overwhelm of like, Hey, look at all these people who like, clearly like this thing works. Um, but all of them have anchor links. And so what our sales team will do then is our sales team has a spreadsheet of the different major objections that people have. And a lot of these, um, are either from podcasts or they're just videos that are team collects, you know, case study videos, whatever. But they have timestamps. And so instead of saying, hey, go to our case studies page, instead of saying, hey, listen to Andy's case study, they'll be like, hey, totally get it that you want to think about it. Look, actually, there's a past student, Jennifer, who you remind me a lot of. She also recently divorced from her husband, is looking for a change, has two kids at home, is worried that they won't be able to make this work with timing. You know, specifically, actually, we have a video from her talking about her experience and where she came from and where she is and how she kind of bridged that gap. It's minute, like, 2.30 to minute four in this video. Here's the link. And they'll send a specific anchor link on the page so they can see all the other case studies. But like, watch this video, minute 2.30 to minute four. So everything's documented for the sales team to nurture. Um, and a lot of this comes from sometimes it's podcast episodes, sometimes it's case studies, but anyway, what's beautiful about this is that. So we have, we have these podcast episodes that we're either deciding to do with a sales team is like, yo, do this. And then from there, now we have a bank. We put them out as stories. They then, once the story goes out, get categorized basically as being a high performer or not. And then once the sales team has gone through the bulk of calls that have been booked from it, they can say, oh, this one actually led to qualified people for signups, or this one led to a whole bunch of people who responded but weren't actually the right people for the program. Because those can be very different things. I can write an Instagram post every day that's going to get 10,000 likes. It's not hard to do. And it's not that you should never do it, but likes and customers are very different. And so once a podcast episode is categorized as high performing, what we'll then do is we'll take that episode and we'll test a few different hooks on it over the course of the next few months. So we'll promote that same episode every few weeks in the stories, but we'll do it with a bit different hook. And once we're like, all right, this one's a winner, then what we do is we start running ads. And we start running an ad basically with a post. That's the exact same Instagram story. That's just on like the tweet template of that exact one. And we know that ad is going to crush. And all that that ad tells you to do is respond with the keyword. You know, like if you want to hear this case study, respond, Melissa respond, 50 K followers respond, whatever. And we don't, we don't run a lot of paid, to our coaching program, but we decided to start, I mean, we were running a coaching program that did like three to 5 million without running paid. And we could still do that. Number one, it's, you know, if you want to grow paid is helpful, but more than anything else, one of the things that I've noticed is that when you have a sales team, particularly like a really high performing sales team, you kind of have to keep them full ongoing. And it's tricky when you're doing that with purely organic content, because if I do any kind of a call to action, they're too busy.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: And then if I don't, they're not busy enough. And so what the ads do and the follow-up system does is it, is it keeps this baseline kind of on the bottom for the coaching team to be Willie or for the, for the sales team. to make sure that they're constantly on the phone and they constantly have people that they're talking to and following up with and, and, and stuff like that. And so the beautiful thing of this is it's unlimited content upgrades. Like you don't need to create new stuff and it's nurturance, right? Even if they're not having a conversation with you even if whatever, and, and you're building your podcast. And you're using that to create conversations on social media for your DM team to, you know, move people into, uh, into phone calls.
Andy: Yeah. So you described a couple of interesting things. The first one is like the large market formula. There's different names for it. It's like the 3% are ready to buy 10% are not problem aware or problem, you know, whatever the, you know, know that they have a problem that don't know the solution yet. And then the other people don't even know they have the problem yet. Right.
Jonathan: Yeah. All the huge and short stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy: Yeah. It's like that. I don't think people think about enough, right? Like, you know, I come from the B2B sales world and, and yeah. And like enterprise sales, like enterprise sales, right?
Jonathan: Yeah. So, you know, long sales cycles.
Andy: Yes. And even then though, you know, you think about it and, but I don't think B2B's figured this out yet, right? B2C info people like you, like, they've got it down, right? They realize that like, the game is actually in the nurturing. Like if it's 100% it's the follow up, right? And most people, I think we're, what's interesting is we're in this world and I don't blame people, but it's tough because we're in this like Uber for this world where you get everything now, now, now instant gratification. So then with that, it's kind of a, you know, it's opposite of actually how sales in the real world works. It's like, Those people aren't going to buy now. Right. You have to think about it. Like, Holy shit. Not just about what your sales process is, but what your nurture process is, because that's where the money's actually made. You know, you got to look at it.
Jonathan: Like it's a book of business. You got to look at it. Like it's a book of business. The vast majority of people are not going to answer you or be ready to buy. Or be engaged enough or have this big enough pain or trust you enough right now. I mean, it's just, and, and the thing is like, if you want to become the obvious choice for people, you've got to be there from before they're thinking about purchasing your thing. So that when they decide to purchase your thing, they're like, I, I knew I was going to do this at one point. Andy's my dude. You're not competing with other people like that. You're not, they're not ever going to show up as a lost lead for anybody else ever because they've never inquired. And I think that's the key. That's not going to be every single person you work with, of course. But to me, that's the goal is people don't come to you and say, you know, why should I buy from you? Instead they come to you and say, I'm ready. How do I buy?
Andy: Yeah. Yeah. It's, I have this, uh, I always tell this story where it's like, you know, we did this study on like how many emails it takes me to email my lists before they buy anything, right? And it's 23 on average. I have to email them 23 times before they buy anything, right?
Jonathan: Can you imagine if you did that calculation? And in addition to how many times they needed to see my name on social media or episodes of my podcast that they listened to, I don't know how you'd ever aggregate that data. But my guess is that if you did, you would need 50 to 100 touch points on average. Yeah. Probably more, you know, and like, like, like unconscious touch points. Yeah. They're not consciously thinking, oh, Andy is sending me content today. They just like see your name through the feed.
Andy: Yeah, yeah. And it's like, what my friend Adam Robinson, he, he describes it as a, he's building his founder brand right now, right? Like he's gonna using his founder brand to do this stuff. And he's like, man, like, the reason I wanted to do is because I got like, hypnotized by this one business guy one time. He's like, he's like, I saw the power of this. And it was like, it's like hypnotizing people to buy your stuff. And he's like, I was like, I need to figure out how to do that. But like, like, I'm, I'm the guy who everybody else is supposed to say, this guy's got it. And I'm like, I don't understand anything after seeing that other guy. And I'm like, I don't understand anything after seeing that other guy.
Jonathan: And I'm like, I don't understand anything after seeing that other guy. And I'm like, I don't understand anything after seeing that other guy. And I'm like, I don't understand anything after seeing that other guy.
Andy: Yeah, it's like he calls it being hypnotized. And I'm like, wow, that is so insane. Well, alright, so let's get back into this. You talked a lot about the DM setters, right? And I think a lot of people, you're doing what I would call like content led growth, right? Let's call it like, yeah, content like growth. You're starting with that business. Yes. Or that business specifically. Now you talked a lot about DM setters and a lot of people, you know, I do a lot of LinkedIn stuff and that's kind of my area right now is the LinkedIn side. And you know, the thing that a lot of people don't realize or what it blows their mind is like, you have to send a shit ton of DMs to start conversations, right? People think that it's just the content and then people are gonna come ask you and be like, hey, can I buy your thing? It's like, no, you still have to go, you still have to get them to do something to open up the conversation or you have to go to them, right? And send a shit ton of DMs.
Jonathan: We don't do any outbound cold. We only do inbound. I don't think that there's anything wrong with cold. We just have so much inbound that we don't need to do it.
Andy: You do the follow tactic, which works with. So let me ask you, how do you look at like the DM process? Let's get into that. Cause I know you have a system for that, right?
Jonathan: Yeah. I'm getting all your tools. How deep in the weeds are we going here?
Andy: No, this is what people love to hear in this. Cause they're like, how, how, how is always what they ask.
Jonathan: Yeah. Everybody, everybody says just DM more people. It's like, okay. Question mark, question mark, question mark profit. Like what does that mean? Yeah.
Andy: Okay. And I'm sure you've done this a million times. And so you've got like a system that you kind of look at.
Jonathan: I have really good people. I've done this a million times. Which part of it do you want to know? Like how to start the conversation, how to continue the conversation, how to follow up.
Andy: Yeah. Like how do you, you mentioned you, the first thing you do is you take a story and you say, Hey, do follow up. Right. Or comment, follow or comment golden or comment this. And then they comment. And then from there, I'm sure you have a framework. Some people use like Socratic questioning. Some people like, you know, they, they just have like a step-by-step process that I've seen.
Jonathan: Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, well, so so the first thing I mean, I can get into that, like, it's basic, like, it's like, we really don't do more than four messages, four or five messages until we offer the call. And you know, it's pretty quick. But I think I think what's much more important. So yeah, I mean, I guess I've never heard that term before. Socratic questioning. I mean, I've never, like, studied this from other people. So I don't know what these fancy terms are that people build frameworks out of. Yeah. And so this is good. Yeah. I guess the credit questioning is a good way to describe it. I mean, yes. I've always thought that sales is curiosity and the more curious, I mean, this is just like fitness sales too. You know, my background is selling like, I like learning from people in fitness for this type of thing, because if you were to think about what makes a product really, really easy to sell, It's like, okay, it works quickly. It doesn't hurt. And it's easy. Okay. What's fitness. It takes a long time. It hurts like hell and it's hard. So like people who were good at selling fitness, yo, they're good at selling. It's just a really hard thing to sell. Um, and so. So that's where my background comes in, right? And really it's just curiosity. It all comes down to curiosity. So yeah, Socratic, I guess that works. I'll tell you very quickly what the question process is, but to me, the real gold, and I think the most important part of this conversation is the preparation and is the accumulation of the brand assets and the utilization of those assets within this process. And then of course the organization of the followup. There's a few, there's a few. There's a separate Instagram page that has a very specific purpose. There's a podcast, there's case studies that are timestamped. And then there's just like a system of followup. Like how do you keep track of these people? I mean, we'll have a minimum of a hundred DM conversations a day. If we do any kind of a call to action, 500, a thousand, like, yeah, that's a lot of people to keep track of. Yeah. And so the conversation is very simple, right? There's always if it's if it's the first time conversing with somebody, then it's some sort of a question of, hey, are you a whatever, super open? Are you an online trainer? Yes. No. Oh, well, kind of. I've kind of been like jerking around with it a little bit, but like, I've never been that serious. Like, I look at all of these things just as a basic conversation tree. You ask an open-ended question where you know that every single response is going to fit into one of three or four different categories.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: It's that simple. Like, and so you can, you can just draw this out. It's, it's an automation. It's if then statements. If they say yes, cool. How many clients do you have? Seven. Awesome. How much are those clients making you? 20. Oh, great start. Is there, you know, what, what are you trying to achieve?
Andy: Awesome.
Jonathan: Look, this is worth a phone call. Yeah. Boom. Right. Uh, no, I'm not training online. Like, like we have a minimum that we work with. Just, we just don't work with people starting out. Um, I have a program and books for that. That's automated. Uh, you know, somebody starting out that's brand new. There's a lot of people in my industry who kind of pretend to be serious about what they're doing. And I don't want to work with them in a coaching business unless they've proven that they actually can execute and are willing to execute and are ready to execute now. And that might mean that we miss out on people and others serve them and take them along their journey, but it's just an easier way for me to run my business. And so we don't work with people who are brand new. We set, we set a quantitative minimum of they got to be making at least a thousand dollars a month online. And so if they're not making that, we refer them basically to other programs and books and stuff. And that's not perfect, but you have to have some way of easily. Yeah. Or, oh, yes, I'm doing it. But like, my situation's different. It's like, well, your situation kind of fits into a bucket. Okay. So like, what are those buckets that you have? And then in every single case, the conversation either leads to this isn't right right now for me, even though that person might be qualified. or this isn't right for me right now and I'm absolutely not qualified. I mean, we don't say that, they don't say that, but like, we know that they're not qualified. They're not right for our program. Doesn't mean we don't like them. Doesn't mean they're not smart. Doesn't mean they're not a good person. They're not right for our program, which is fine. I think in order to build a scalable coaching program, you have to be very careful in choosing your customers. The biggest, I mean, we can get into like the delivery of coaching if you want, but like the biggest mistake that I see people make when they try to coach, when they try to scale and grow their coaching program, is that they don't know who they're coaching tightly enough. And so they can never build their pillars. And so they can never build the different aspects of the program and hire people specifically for those. So you can't just like hire another coach. It doesn't work.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: You have to hire for skills. You have to hire for pillars. So we've talked about that. So anyway, all of the conversations basically go to a great, How many people are you working with? Awesome. How much is that making you? Cool. What's your goal? Hey, we can help you with that. Like, that's it. You know? Yeah. From there, though, you know, that's why I say like, like, I think what people are often listening to these types of conversations, Andy, what they're looking for, what they think that they're looking for is very tactical stuff. The tactical stuff is easy. It's simple. There's probably not going to be that much difference in the specifics of the word. Like, tell me what perfect words to use. It doesn't make a difference. Like, it's probably doesn't matter specifically how you ask the question. It's there's lots of different ways to skin the cat. What is often missing is all of the little stuff that's happening behind the scenes that you would never see if you're trying to quote unquote funnel hack the process.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: And that's why I don't care. Like come in and funnel hack my process. Like you won't see it. Like you're going to, you're going to copy the tip of the iceberg, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to see the rest. So what else do we have? I'll tell you some of it. So we talked about the podcast. Yeah. We talked about how we use that to create a flywheel. We talked a bit about the case studies and the case study pages and how we timestamp them and how our sales team then has those anchored links and timestamps very specific to objections or how I have to think about it type conversations. And we don't rush people through the sales process. Yeah. I mean, we're talking to eight to $16,000 sale, like, to take some time to make that decision. And we want you to make that decision properly. So we don't rush you. And then the third asset that we've created is a specific page for the mentorship. And so you can look at it. It's at online trainer mentorship on Instagram. I think the misconception is people think that social media pages, their only purpose is to generate an audience and gain attention. I actually think the best use of social media pages for almost every business is not to generate attention, but to convert attention generated elsewhere. And so my personal page, we use it largely to generate attention. Personal pages are good for that. Business pages are pretty shit at generating attention. It cares about business pages, about logos, but they're really great for it's, it's, it's effectively a sales page.
Andy: Yeah.
Jonathan: On the internet. that is living and breathing. And so I don't care if there's interaction on this page. What we do is we introduce people to the different coaches. When they finish a call with a client, sometimes they'll just turn their phone around and they'll be like, Hey, just got off call. Client was struggling with this. Here's how we help them solve this. Here's what you need to know. Hope that helps. I'm John. That's good. Right? And so we'll put those types of videos. We'll put case studies. We have a ring the bell Slack channel where it's just like a client wins. We're all day every day. It's just screenshots. It's just, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Successes, whatever. We'll take those screenshots and we'll, we'll put them up on the page. And so people who are right for us, but not ready yet. We'll say, hey, I actually have a page dedicated to this. If you're interested in following along, here's the link. People who have not, you know, we'll send two or three follow ups to somebody and then they're in a book of business to follow up. And then a while later, when our DM team has time, you know, it's like, it's like a quieter time. What they'll do is they'll go through that list and one by one, they'll just send a message. Hey, not sure if you know, but I actually have a page dedicated to helping people like you achieve this thought that I'd send you the link. It's where I post more of the sort of the business type content, you know, here's the link follow along. And so we have this page. Let me find it. I don't ever look at it because our DM team actually runs the page. Like, like I've never logged into it, but it's got 2,808 followers. Yeah. Every single one of those followers was invited manually one by one. Yeah.
