In this episode, we dive into the incredible journey of Robby Bent, the founder of Othership, a wellness brand that started with a simple ice bath in his backyard and has now grown into a thriving business with physical spaces and a popular breathwork app. 🌟
Robby shares his personal story, from being an early investor in Ethereum to overcoming drug addiction and finding his passion in wellness. We discuss the challenges he faced while building Othership, including running out of money and navigating the complexities of opening physical locations in Toronto and New York. 🏙️
We also explore Robby's unique experiences, such as spending eight days in complete darkness in a cave, and how these moments of introspection have shaped his approach to life and business. 🕯️
Join us as we uncover the secrets behind Othership's success, the impact of technology on human connection, and the future of wellness in the digital age. Don't miss this inspiring conversation with Robby Bent! 🎧
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Robbie:
Yeah, we actually started with the physical spaces. Really? OK. It was an ice bath in the backyard, and it was just for fun. And like, othership wasn't a business. It was a free ice bath for anyone in the community to come. And every night, we'd have a fire pit going instead of drinking. And that grew into a 300-person WhatsApp chat. And you could just come any time of the day to use the ice bath for free. As it got colder, we converted my garage into a sauna and ice And so there was just this like August lock sauna, ice bath, you could let yourself in and buy donation. And that grew into, you know, kind of a thousand people.
Andy: Now, today's story is crazy, y'all. It is about Robbie Bennett, who was actually early at Ethereum. Who knows how much he got? I should have asked that question, but that is totally OK. He used that Ethereum to start a wellness brand called Othership. Now, this is a breathing app that you can use. It's doing over a million revenue per year. And what's interesting is they've taken this breathing app and brought it to the physical world and created these spaces that have cold plunges, saunas, and an area just to get together and do everything that is wellness related. This is such an awesome story, y'all. With Robbie, we get into what he went through in order to get to this point in his life, including being in a cave alone in the dark for eight days straight, to being a drug addict, and now to running an amazing wellness brand. So I cannot wait for y'all to hear this session here with Robby Bent. And remember, if you like this, please subscribe and whatever app you're using, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, it really helps the pod and helps you get notified when a new episode drops. So here we are, Robby Bent. Thank you so much, y'all. Enjoy. Robby, what's up, my man? Can you hear me okay? Nice. How's it going, my man?
Robbie: It's going good, man. Life is great right now. Yeah, really feeling it. Summer was quite challenging. So it feels good to be in a bit of a more relaxed state.
Andy: Yeah, what was challenging about it?
Robbie: I just ran out of money. We had to put in personally a bunch of funds. We were way over budget. We're delayed getting like ramping in a new city. We lived in a house with 12 people, my toddler. That's fucking crazy.
Andy: Interesting. And were you running out of money building the physical spaces that you're building? Is that the issue there?
Robbie: If you're building brick and mortar, these are long-term decisions. The leases are 10 years. You need to put up huge security deposits, which I didn't really factor into the equation and how large they would be. You raise money and then the first one was working. So we're like, okay, huge swing. This doesn't exist in North America. Let's go. And so we signed three leases in parallel, like a flagship in Toronto, which we started building month one of the first one being open. And then, uh, you know, two flagships in New York, which is like a new country and city. So it was just a huge swing and I was just overoptimistic and how fast it would ramp, what they would cost. You know, New York has totally different regulations. There's a ton of mistakes around construction there. So yeah. And these are all decisions that were made two years ago and it's just battling now. Um to make up for like wrong predictions and like luckily the brand is stronger than it's ever been and the spaces are performing well, but um getting there was Just a fucking crazy.
Andy: Yeah. Yeah getting there was crazy and I want to get into this dude There's so many things I want to ask you. Um, which is like You've taken so for people that are listening now, and this is going to go to like 32 000 people robbie So this is gonna be great. I'm gonna be in new york in two weeks, too so i'm gonna stop by othership and then maybe we do like a I don't know, some content around it and release the pod or something, which would be freaking awesome.
Robbie: I'm in Toronto for the month, but you definitely can go in and get content. A hundred percent.
Andy: Yeah. Yeah. We'll do, I'll do that. And like, maybe we'll, we'll come up with something fun. Um, cause I'll be in New York for, for an event. So yeah, that'd be awesome, man. And I'll let you know on that. Um, cause it'd be great that we, you know, get you some promo and then I just want to check it out. It looks so awesome. And what, what was like amazing to me was other ship started as an app. Well, what most people don't know is it started as an app for breathing work, right. Or breath work, I should say. And. you know, I was using it during COVID actually back when was it 2021 or something? I think Sean, uh, Puri posted about it. That's how I figured out about it. And then I started using this and I was like, damn, dude, this is bad-ass. Cause like the other meditation apps, this is some user feedback. It was just like, it's very calming. Don't get me wrong. But like, I have ADHD man. So I couldn't just sit there and like, You know, I'm sure if I practice enough, I can do it. But with other shit, the barrier to entry was like way lower because it was like the cool beats. It was giving me like a framework, like breathe in, breathe out cool music. So it kind of like still got that little dopamine hit. I feel like, you know, I don't know if that's the best way to do it, but I'm sure you guys have done your homework on this. And I was like, holy shit, this is super cool. Um, And I recently learned, I think when you were coming on the pod that now you're doing physical spaces with sauna baths and cold plunges and like just a space for people to get together and like this wellness area. And I was like, holy shit, you just took like the digital world and brought it into like the physical world, which is a really cool idea and concept. And I want to talk to you a little bit about that because I haven't seen a software company really do that. You know, um, but you've seen like Warby Parker and those guys that they're like physical products, but not pure digital. Um, so man, you just gave us a little bit about that experience, but. What was that transition like? And, and how did you always know you were going to do that from the beginning or what's the story there?
Robbie: Yeah, we actually started with the physical spaces. And so really, okay. So it was, uh, just a, it was a ice bath in the backyard. And it was just for fun and like other ship wasn't a business. It was just my wife, which is also unique. There's five co-founders and we're all like really good friends. So it's two couples and a fifth person who I went to university with and have been best friends with for 20 years. So it's a very unique dynamic of just, we were, had the space in my backyard. That was a free ice bath for anyone in the community to come and every night we'd have a fire pit going and towels. And it was like, Hey, are you into health and wellness? Like come do this instead of drinking. And that grew into a 300 person. What's up, Chad. And you could just come any time of the day. If you knew you could go, it was on a residential street in Toronto and like open the backyard and just use the ice bath for free. And the whole goal was like for us to make friends. And like, I worked from home and so I'd just always be out there drinking coffee with a crew of people and. As it got colder, we converted my garage into a sauna and an ice bath. And so there was just this like August lock sauna, ice bath. You could let yourself in and by donation and background to, you know, kind of a thousand people. So there was nowhere in Toronto to do this stuff at the time. It's like 2019. Um, and then COVID hit and we had these thousand people that were coming in and like, just, you know, making friends, starting to date, hanging out and. we just started doing zoom breathwork sessions. And because there was this community, people were really nervous. They were looking for something to do. And the idea was, you know, could we do a Friday night breathwork session that was like electronic music and felt like you were at a dance party and was fun. So it's very different. Like you said, ADHD and meditation. And I was a meditator for a long time. Also have ADHD. And so the idea was like, could we do this thing that was fun, but it wasn't alcohol based and you could do it in your home. And so the breathworks, would get 100 people, then 200, then 500, then 1,000 on these Zooms. I'm like, well, this is fucking crazy. And so we started recording them and putting them online. And my wife was like, I think I can, it's COVID, I think I can make a course. And so we did a course on Kajabi, and that did, I don't know, 10,000 in sales, and then 100,000 in sales. And the people kept saying, hey, I use this web platform, but you should build an app. So we looked around, and my wife just took all the initiative and built this Breathwork app that was kind of like Calm or Headspace and that it's just been like the little engine that could. We actually recorded all that content ourselves. So we like, you know, it's probably 800 sessions on there and it was just a passion. It was something that we would do. My partners have a studio and they're artists and musicians in addition to like the lead guides at our spaces and like they're trained sauna masters and they're just amazing unicorn humans, but they would find the royalty free music, mix the tracks, write the scripts, record the vocals. And so for COVID, we would just, you know, for fun, be making these sessions all the time and like putting them out and using them ourselves. We'd have a party on Friday night and, you know, we'd do a breath work as part of the party. We're actually, it's coming up on our five year anniversary this month, and we're all going to go back to the garage and do a giant breath work. Um, if I count all the people who were there at the start, um, to launch the app. So pretty excited. And that's like a fun Saturday night is we're going to go and do breath work together. So it's just really a labor of love and passion. And the app was launched and it's profitable now. It does over a million bucks in sales. And then, you know, when that physical space was working, when COVID started to end, we signed our first lease. But the goal was always, you know, the engine of the business is like the physical spaces.
Andy: Yeah. Interesting. See, I didn't even know that. Like I thought it was the app first and then the physical spaces. Right. And the app, you guys are doing a million over a million a year, huh? With the app right now, which is crazy. And I always thought, I was like, how did they get all these recordings? Like, what did they, and it sounds like you just have musician friends and you, you brought the musicians together with the breathwork people and like made a baby, which is so awesome. Right. And that's super cool. And that's the big differentiator from like, the other ship experience. I what I wanted to get into, though, it's like, so I was doing some research, obviously, for me, and you are pretty open about this, I believe it's online, right, which is like, you had a journey from like being a drug addict to now like a wellness entrepreneur. Right. And then also you you started at Ethereum when it was six bucks a coin. We'll get into that because I'm sure a lot of people want to hear about that. And that's crazy. Congratulations. I'm sure you still have a little bit or at least some. But you know, what was that rock bottom moment for you that really sparked you to want to go from, you know, being an addict to like a wellness entrepreneur?
Robbie: I don't think there was like one, like, if you look back, I think Steve Jobs has this line where he's like, you know, the the dots of your life only connect looking backwards. And so, yeah, there was no like specific moment. But like one moment was, hey, I started this company. It was a tech company. We raised, you know, twenty, twenty five million dollars from overseas foreign investors. And the business failed completely. Like it had probably 80 to 100 employees at its peak. And it was like a full zero, like fired every single person. technology didn't work well enough, no product market fit, burnt all the money, lit it on fire. And I, I had, like, I remember like legitimately having 60 bucks in my bank account moving out of my house in Toronto. And I was probably about 30 when this happened. And so, you know, material things were important. My identity was important, like being cool, having nice things that like feeling accomplished, feeling successful. Those were things that big drivers for me when I was younger and Um, I just remember like coming out of my apartment and having like a bunch of plastic bags with stuff and like plastic containers. I bought at staples. I didn't even have like nice suitcases, putting them all in my dad's car and like looking and having like 60 bucks and no place to live and driving my dad's car with like my shitty belongings, um, back to my parents' house in Guelph to like move into their basement. And so that was like a. Whoa, I'm a failure. Like I didn't make it in five minutes. I didn't make it in entrepreneurship. I don't know what my skillset is. I don't know what kind of job I can apply for. I was like really lost at that point. And so that was definitely a low point, but I definitely wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to become a wellness entrepreneur. Like absolutely not. I was just like, Hey, I have no idea what to do. And that just sent me on a long, a long journey of exploration.
Andy: Nice. And I read somewhere you spent eight days in a cave.
Robbie: What was that? At that time of, um, You know, hey, I'm I'm destitute. I'm not successful. I'm struggling with alcohol and drugs. I just got out of a relationship. It was very much like, OK, what can I do? And I got pretty into I think this is common was for me, at least, you know, around 30, you start to get into like Tim Ferriss, the Chris Williamson, the morning routines like I can control my day, I can control my life. And so I was just like afraid of a lot of things when I was young. I was afraid of fighting, terrified of parties and like high school is going to get in a fight. I was afraid of job interviews, I was afraid of asking for help. I was afraid of, like, sticking out. I was just insecure and, like, scared. And so when I was 30, I'm like, fuck, OK, I want to, like, go and face my fears and, like, do hard things. And that became sort of my motto was, like, the harder the thing, I can prove I can get over being afraid. And so, you know, I lived in Israel for a year. I did a 10 day meditation retreat. I started going into these deep, like, hard things. And the idea would be like, I got my skydiving license because I was afraid of heights. Um, I don't really feel as called to that anymore at 40 now of like pushing myself and like breaking through fears, but it was really helpful at that time. For me to try all these new things. And, um, you know, one of the ones was we're in this community and there's a lot of people who are interested in spirituality that come to other ships that have a meditation practice or, um, are in a therapy practice or connect with their emotions. And so there's always people on the cutting edge of doing weird. You know, once I'll hear about, yeah. It's just the craziest stuff all the time. We get invited to try it. And so I'd heard about people talking about like, oh, the dark retreat, and always these things, the dark fringes, they become popular. Like when I was, you know, talking about Vipassana, that's like a common thing now that people talk about and know and do this 10 day meditation retreat. you know, fasting and ice bath. When I got an ice bath, it was super weird. There was like this one old, you know, European Wim Hof guy doing Wim Hof. Yeah, no, it's everywhere. And so there's always these things that are happening at the fringes where you can like live life early before it hits mainstream. And the dark retreat is one that now I think there's like a three year waiting list to go to this one. And like all of a sudden, since I did it, you know, Aaron Rodgers has done it and is talking about it. And so I just heard people talking about like, oh, is this crazy? experience where you go into darkness for however long and it's totally psychedelic, man. And I was like, okay, this sounds kooky, but like, let's look into it. So I called the owner up and he was really amazing. He'd done two years in solitude, like living in the woods. And so just a very interesting person. And sometimes you talk to these people and like, wow, this person feels like they've learned something about life. That's interesting. And so I ended up booking eight days. in this cave and just complete like it is intense like you can't even see your hand in front of your face if your eyes are closed like it's like that the whole time um you know you say to go to the bathroom you're like searching around on the ground to find the toilet to get your food it comes in through this like double-sided drawer so at night they like bring it in and yeah there's it's just completely dark and you're completely alone and it's it's sort of you know mix of like how much resilience do you have can you conquer your fears what's it like to be I think a nice analogy that people, um, resonate with is like, imagine like you're just being rained on all the time, you know, and it never stops. And so that's like, you wake up, it's pouring on you. Like, what's my wife think? What are my parents think? What am I going to do about my job? I need to go to the gym today. Or did I pay these bills? Oh my God, I got these two emails. I'm looking at social media. That person's quite, it's just nonstop. And it makes it really hard. to go beyond, like you could live your entire year and not once think about like, am I really happy? Am I a good dad? You know, am I living life the way that I want to? What am I afraid of? Like you can go an entire year without thinking of any of that. And so I find when you go into these situations, right, where there's no phone, it could be simple. It could just be like a vacation where you're off your phone and like, you know, in the woods, whatever, you know, it doesn't have to be a dark retreat, but it's just kind of like you pop an umbrella and the rain stops. And these common things, like you're thinking about them a little bit, but you know, it's Monday morning and you're up 18 hours in the cave and new stuff is going to come up. So I just feel it's almost like pressing pause on the regular programs in your life. And if you think of your life, like Chrome tabs, a hundred Chrome tabs up in your browser, and it's fucking slow and clunky. And you just shut all this shit down for a bit. I'm like, what, what actually comes up? Um, so that's probably the power. in these experiences to kind of give you a fresh look on life.
Andy: That is, dude, that is crazy. Eight. So it was quite literally eight days in like, almost pure darkness.
Robbie: Yeah, it was really tough. That one was really hard. It was just so boring. Also, and like people have talked about it, like it's a psychedelic experience. It's not it's like really a nothing like magic, like there's realizations, but it's it's a grueling, discipline require meditation experience where the thoughts come up over and over and just like intense, immense boredom. And it's very hard to sleep after like day four. And you're just sitting there with your with your thoughts. So it's pretty grueling.
Andy: Are you allowed to talk or no?
Robbie: Do whatever you want. You're just by yourself. So you know, but who are you talking to?
Andy: Oh, and it's just you in the cave.
Robbie: Yeah. So it's pretty, it's an idea of how to Really introspect in your thoughts with no distraction at all and I tell you like coming out It's hard also like I find all these experiences are very interesting They last for a while and you might take a little bit back into your life And then you kind of forget about them like this is now three or four years ago for me And I'm like don't really remember it. You know, I'm like some of the lessons may have been lost So it's like an interesting experience, but it's not lasting I guess be like going to be like running a marathon four years ago. I'm like, yeah, I'm healthy I ran a marathon four years ago. It's kind of Like you need consistent work. Um, but I remember coming out and like all religions have a practice of restriction. Like from stimulation, which I'm on my phone all the time. I eat whatever I want. I like, you know, there's just simulation everywhere now. And so fasting is like one example, but so the cave is like the ultimate fast. Like you have no stimulation at all. And coming out on day nine in the morning. just breathing fresh air like just sight how amazing it is to see like everything was vibrating and like it was dark out and I watched the sunrise and at first you could see sort of like their greens and browns wow like this color is incredible and then seeing the blue come over the horizon and the sunshine in my eyes was just like literally transported me to a memory of being a child like skiing with my dad and like seeing the sun on the slopes and This was so powerful of wildlife the simple things are so amazing. But like, you know, I woke up this morning stressed had two coffees already I'm just thinking about getting through my emails and I don't give a shit about what I see right now and like the magic of sight and so it's yeah, it's like that morning after being so fucking bored to just like sit there and like look at the sunshine and to like breathe in the fresh air to go for a walk in the woods to then see what I was eating and eat like it was an incredible morning and it's so simple and I just um it's really hard to enjoy life when you have a cell phone like fully and so that that was what I got out of the experience was just like this immense um wow the simplicity of things that that is crazy I'm I've never met anyone that's done that I've I've heard about the 10-day retreats like meditation and no talking for 10 days and like
Andy: Those ones about being in the dark for a day, dude, I'm, I'm scared for 10 seconds at home when I turn off the light, you know, like, I noticed it like seriously. And you're over here in a cave for eight days. That's insane. Um, and now you said there's a three year wait list now for something for people to just go and hang in, go in that cave for a week or more.
Robbie: Yeah. I think a week is a pretty long time. Most people like their first time will do like two days, you know, and it's kind of like a weekend. And the idea is I'm going to rest and it is very restful for that period of time. Like some people will just go in and because there's no light, we'll sleep for 40 hours. You have like the best sleep of your life, you know? So if you look at it that way, it's like, wow, that's interesting. What generally happens is for the first two days, your body's not used to not seeing like light is what wakes us up and triggers our circadian rhythms and totally fucks that up. And so. Some people will sleep 40 out of the first 48 hours and be consistently tired, and then they won't be able to sleep properly after. So for just two or three days, you can be like, OK, I'm going to go and get comfortable with darkness and maybe any fears I've had around darkness and sleep. And so it's not the same level of rigor and intensity required. And I think a lot of people really vibe with that idea of meditation. It's difficult. A lot of people are like, oh, it's hard. Nothing's happening. I can't pick it up. seems to have lost some steam in popular culture also a little bit and so i think this idea though of like oh my god i'm off my phone for two days with completely no way for someone to get a hold of me it's like it is meditation but it's a nice the different need that people are filling it's like oh i'm just gonna turn off my brain and and yeah people are resonating like you know it's like three year weight loss is crazy
Andy: That is crazy. And you've also talked a lot about like the loneliness epidemic, right? Which, you know, you talk about building community and stuff. And, and, you know, and I think that's kind of where this community aspect of othership is addressing this modern crisis. But where do you think this like loneliness epidemic is coming from?
Robbie: Well, I think technology predominantly, I'm like a massive fan of technology. I'm like, you know, Elon Musk is like a personal hero. Like I just can't. Same. I love that guy. He's amazing. Just insane. Like I listened to something recently where he built a new super cluster of computers for like the largest AI, you know, super cluster in the world. And he did it in like 19 days, which is like, I just think it's amazing that people are pushing the bounds of what we can do as humans. Like I find that super inspiring, but I think also what technology has done through convenience has made human interaction less frequent. And so if you think of, okay, like religion, like how many people are in organized religions now versus when we were kids, like a fraction, you know, so that's, that's the first, that's a place where you would have community interaction. Then there's work. Well, I don't know, most people in my generation work from home, you know, And if they do go in the office, maybe they go in the office two days a week. So that five day work week completely changed, you know, even if you're at your desk now, like it's very common to just do zoom meetings on Slack. Like that is not real connection where working 20 years ago would be completely different. You would not be on your cell phone. You'd be, if you were a teacher in school, in the break room, just hanging out, chatting, like people are on their phones all the time. Um, and me included. And so. your chance for connection through church, through work. And then you think of like going out and socializing, like, okay, how many times a week do you order Uber Eats, you know, or DoorDash or whatever. For me, it's like three or four. And I used to be like going to the restaurant because there's no other option. Even if I was going out of my house to like get fast food or something, I'm still leaving. And so I just think the chance for serendipitous connection has been through technology cut by like 85%. You know, and so I think naturally it's just, it's just difficult. And then, you know, at the same time with your phone, I'm on it all the time because I'm available. So like email, discord, slack, social. So it just feels overwhelming, but I'm not like getting that real connection. And I just, I, I feel lonely, man. Even, even now, like go working on this stuff and having an amazing partner and like great co-founders. It's still like nobody that lives on my street has a kid. I don't really know my neighbors. I'm mostly being with my wife and at night we're like watching TV and going to bed. Like I would love to like live on this nostalgic street where we knew all our neighbors and everyone kind of hangs out. Maybe that'll happen as my kids get older, but it just feels in a big urban environment. Like to know your neighbors that that feels insane to me to like, to really like be friends with people on my street. Whereas like where I grew up, everyone, like the kids were friends and you know, one neighbor would have everyone over to their pool and It just feels in urban dense environments, like, and the other thing with technology is people are moving around like significantly more so in the city, I'm 40. So in the city I grew up in like, you know, the parents were there and they live there from 30 on the same street until they were 60 years old, you know, same house. Yeah. Like now, you know, I would guess in one of those cities, like I bet you 60 to 70% of people move out of the city and try something new. And it's just so much easier. Like if you would have been 20 years ago to move to LA. For me, even, even though it was possible, but like now, okay, I go there. I can talk to all my friends on WhatsApp. I can see what they're doing on social. I can instantly find a place from Toronto. I can easily like transfer my bank account. I can do everything in Google. Like it's so fucking easy to just go somewhere and like live there for two months. You know, whether I live there full time or I'm a digital, like digital nomad wasn't even a thing. So like for you, 40 years ago to move out of your city, like that's impossible. You have a phone book when you go to a new place, like how do you meet new people? So I just think it means your people move a lot more, which means deeper relationships are harder to come by. As well, like my family all lives in different cities. So I think all of these things are happening as a result of technology and there's not like a counter balance to create connection. Um, maybe we'll use technology for that and probably AI could be used for that, but it's now. It just feels like loneliness, even for like the average person. It's like a, it's like a massive problem. And I think if you live in a big city, chances are your family members don't live close by and your friends have like moved. You know, like I know somebody in New York who's transferred friends three times because he started at 21 and it's expensive to live. So, you know, your friends, 21 to 30, 30 to 35. And he's just, they've, they've moved out of the city and he's just fucking lonely, man. And so, yeah, I don't, I think this will get worse with technology and more intense.
Andy: Yeah. Well, there's that. I don't know if you've seen that graph. There's like this chart. Um, maybe we'll put it in, in the pot here for people to watch, but it's a chart where it's like social media usage and mental health. And it's like a direct correlation right on the graph. of life, the growth of social media to the growth of mental health stuff. And, you know, my wife actually for, you know, I have a two year old son, like she doesn't even let him go on a screen, right? She's like, no TV, no screen time, you know, just like, need to be here, right past 5pm. We're kind of like no phones, right, which is kind of crazy. These days for a lot of people, right? I mean, I even me, I'm kind of like, feel like I'm having like a withdrawal, you know, because I've like on it all day and looking for the next thing to do and the next task to like check off the list. Right. And then even every day at five, I'm like, shoot, man, like, I'm having that like craving, you know, and it's bad. It's bad. And you catch yourself and you're like, holy crap, like, I think I question like, what's more important being here with my son and like my wife and like being in the moment or like worried about these notifications. And so it's a constant battle, I think. And then on the weekend, it's even harder, right? Because like, you have five days of pure, like, you know, seven to five, or, you know, whatever, seven to six, whatever, of that, and then you have to take two days off, and you almost have to like, reset, like on the weekend to like kind of get out of that mode. And then you talk about vacation, and it's even worse, right? Going on vacation, it takes three days to like, try and like get off in off that mode of like, hey, I need to decompress. I know it's important. But you're also like, internally battling that, like, you know, what do I need to do next? And so it's crazy, man. And I think going back to what you were saying is like, you see, Yeah, I'm a little worried for kids, right? Like that are always on their screen and stuff, because that's, they grow up that, you know, dinner, they're on their screens, and they're seeing these screens and all this, and you see this all the time, which don't get me wrong, I know, to have a nice dinner, sometimes you didn't maybe need to give the kid a screen if you're out to dinner, if not, he's going to be going crazy. So I get that. But it's also like, when you have them on that screen all the time, I'm worried that kids are going to grow up and not be able to have a conversation with a human being. you know, like a normal conversation, which then I think will correlate to that loneliness epidemic because you're not actually being able to connect with people and have conversations like this. So I just feel like it's definitely this spiral effect because of these screens, which obviously there's good to the screens too. But that's something I think about a lot, for sure, you know. And I don't know, like, is there a solution? to that, right? Or is it just kind of like inevitable that this is how it's going to be?
Robbie: Yeah, I have no idea. Time will tell, man. A couple of things that came up when you're saying that is like, I watch this thing that always like parents are worried. And so it was like chess, the new like phenomenon that's the devil, you know, and then there was like arcade games and video games and like bicycles when they came out. And like, it just seems to be that when something new comes out, like parents are nervous every generation. And then that generation is like, what are you talking about? And so I'm sure for us, I remember if you like, we were like rap music. It was like, you know, there was swearing in it and like the government was going out to like censor it. And like, how dare like N.W.A. like fuck the bully. Like it's just insane. So I imagine people are like resilient and will just learn how to deal with this. And, you know, I don't know what the other option is I think people some people will be very susceptible and it will be challenging and then some will just learn how to like regulate and and deal and maybe there'll be other ways like you know like one thing I thought would be really cool is like therapy is so expensive and like a very hard barrier to like open up and AI is probably good enough now where you could get a ping once a day from your phone like how are you feeling and you just kind of do a voice note and ask you questions and you just follow the prompts and then over time You know, maybe it synthesizes all your emails and text messages you've sent that have, like, where you're feeling off, all your WhatsApps, and you have, like, a personal helper that just is, like, going deeper and deeper that knows more about you than any therapist by, like, 100x and also has way more experience than any therapist by 100x because it pulls from, you know, the whole world. And so, like, the idea that you can have the best therapist in the world in your pocket for free Maybe that's super helpful. Maybe that's how kids learn. It's like, you know, it's just something they have on their phone. It's like an emotional check-in that happens three times a day. And I think that could be enormous. And so maybe we start using these tools in a helpful way. So I don't know.
Andy: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I was just gonna ask you, like, where do you think this intersection of like, wellness and technology is going to be in the 5-10 years, right? Because that's what's interesting, too, like this AI stuff, which is amazing. I think it it could help a lot of this stuff, right? Like synthesizing your thoughts, summarizing everything, helping understand who you are and giving you like, telling you the right things at the right time, which I think some people need.
Robbie: I also think it'd be so cool, like for loneliness, if you basically, like imagine this world, which people probably wouldn't opt into, but maybe some, but like, let's say everyone in Toronto cell phone data was like in an AI. So like, everything you've put in your notes app, every email you've sent, every WhatsApp, every text message. So if your phone knows exactly who you are, what you like, what you don't exactly, your Uber Eats orders, what kind of food, what your interests are, and it'll know your personality based on how you talk. You know, are you always complaining? Are you like a worried person? Are you this and that? And if all like 2 million people in Toronto, that data was there and the phone then told you, Hey, these are the four people that you're going to get the most benefit from meeting or that you're going to be the most interested in. here are like the five potential matches that are best for you and like will fit. And so over time, I think like all our data is in our phones. Do you think it would be, I'd love where I could sign up and I'm like, wow, these are the best five people in my city I'm most likely to develop a deep bond with. Like that would be so cool. The chance of you meeting those five people now is zero. Like there's 2 million people in the city. Chance of you meeting your partner is also very low and like dating is broken as well. Like we have so many people in our community complaining about not being able to find a partner and like hating the apps. And like, that's also like a massive. Problem is in big cities, 30 to 40 people being single that want a partner. It's it's, um, something, why do you think that's a big thing?
Andy: You think it's because there's so many options. It's kind of like decision fatigue. Cause now they can just swipe and find someone or like, you know, people's jobs change.
Robbie: They move more frequently. Um, they're just in new environments. Things are like less life is less stable. Like a lot of people I know have. you know, are 40 and then there's like no romantic partner, no job and no home base. And because they're like, it's so easy to transition between all three of those and it's very destabilizing in a life. And so I think that makes it harder to like connect with somebody if you don't have like an idea of where you want to live or career, like it just leaves a lot of optionality. So I don't know why that is, but it is a problem I'm seeing a lot. People are delaying kids longer, more concerned about their careers. I don't know the underlying route, but it's a frequent complaint in our community of like, wow, I'd love to meet somebody here. And so these ideas of ways to actually like an app, an app is not incentivized to connect to you. They're incentivized to have you scroll, continue scrolling and use the app more. And so some way that like actually connected you with people who had similar values and like, we're looking for what you're looking for would be, would be interesting. So I think there are like, all of these things are broken and there might be ways. to solve them. So I'd be curious to see what what happens in the next five years.
Andy: Yeah, yeah. Because you kind of have this vision, it sounds like of like, you have physical locations, and you have a digital platform simultaneously. Right. And so You should definitely do an Austin location. People would eat that up in Austin. I'm sure you're thinking about it, but dude, it would be perfect in Austin. Lots of like health and wellness people here. Like, you know, I don't know if you've ever been to Austin, but there's a lot of health and wellness people here. I'm sure you're thinking about it, but dude, it would be perfect in Austin. Lots of like health and wellness people here. I'm sure you're thinking about it, but dude, it would be perfect in Austin. Lots of like health and wellness people here. I do this Tuesday run, by the way, every Tuesday. And like everyone's like breathing coach or you know, something like that, like tons of that stuff in Austin. So anyways, I don't know if you're scouting new locations, but definitely something in the US that place where I've seen a lot more of that than anywhere else, to be honest with you. And I've lived in Seattle, I've lived in, you know, from LA, I've lived in kind of everywhere. And like, Austin is like, big on that type of stuff. They love it. Like, so I get meet like three invites to a meetup every week for like a cold plunge, a coffee thing. You know, like it's huge, man. It's huge in Austin. So, uh, I'm sure you've done some homework, but anyways, um, last thing I want to talk to you about Robbie is this is something super interesting. You, you joined a theorem when it was like six bucks a coin, right? Was that about where it was when you joined that? I read that somewhere.
Robbie: Okay. Involved in the ecosystem. I had a friend who invested in the ICO and he was living in Silicon Valley and built like a massive venture fund, um, called Polychain capital. And so. I knew about it like at 30 cents. And finally, when it was, you know, starting to pick up steam, he just invited me to come down and stay with him. And yeah, I moved to San Francisco and got involved super
Andy: Oh, wow. That's great. And like, there's a million, we can have a whole nother episode on this, but like, where, like, where is your vision here for where like, Ethereum and this whole crypto stuff is going? Right? I'm sure everyone asks you this all the time, but I'd love to hear it and kind of get your insight on it.
Robbie: Yeah, I honestly have just kind of stopped listening or watching. And so I'm just… Really? building experiences for transformation for people and like it just takes so much focus like we'll have a thousand people a day come through and just to you know we have 150 employees to kind of scale these, like the builds are, you know, five, seven, $8 million for the units. And so to like sign a lease, run the construction and run it in parallel, hire the team, deliver that kind of hospitality, six AM to midnight every single day. It's just, it's, it's so immense. So there hasn't been as much time for old passions and I've kind of focused. I also, my son is too. And so I'm just 80% of the time and then dad, the other 20%. And so I'm almost just fully focused on like, how do we make our product better? How do we make our experience better? How do we open more? That said, I mean, like, you know, one thing that sticks with me with crypto, and always will, is like, when you get paid by Ethereum, you can provide your banking details, which require like, an address, a SWIFT number, a bank address, and like works Monday to Friday, nine to five, or you just have a fucking Ethereum address where you get paid in 30 seconds. And it's just so easy. I'm like, you know, I don't know. We've seen bank dealing with banks is just horrendous as a business as well. It's a nightmare. The entire financial system is broken. It doesn't work. And so it's just so clear to me that better rails will replace everything in the traditional banking system. Just over what period of time? I don't know. But like, you know, I think, yeah, you can expect crypto the same way as AI would be like the Internet. Like it'll be massive. It'll be everywhere. People will own it. You know, the use case now just as a store of value is massive, but I think these types of systems will be, will just be enormous. So I own Ethereum, I own Bitcoin, I own a bunch of early stage coins. I'm invested in crypto venture stuff. I'm like a huge believer over what timeframe, I don't know. It's been slower than people would like, but it's just kind of obvious.
Andy: Yeah. Yeah. And did you take any, like the Ethereum you had and use it to start other ships?
Robbie: Yeah. That's where the money came from was from crypto for my portion of the investment.
Andy: Yeah. Wow. Cause I'm like seven, $8 million is a lot to build like one location. I mean, that wasn't the first one.
Robbie: The first one was a garage, which we spent 80 grand. And then the second unit was 2 million. Um, third unit was three and a half. And then the fourth unit is just like a monster flagship and the fourth and the fifth unit. So, um, we just now, like, you know, we have, we won, we made a ton of mistakes in a new city. It wasn't meant to be that much. We have like a bigger brand, understand the business, understand construction. So then the spaces have gotten bigger and bigger, but yeah, we've been at it for five years. So the first one definitely wasn't in that price range.
Andy: Yeah. And the last question I want to ask you is you are big, you've said brand multiple times, which is like, and even in your photo and on LinkedIn, you've got that sweatsuit on like super swaggy. I'm like, how do I get one of those sweatsuits? It's amazing, man. And for you, it sounds like you're big on this brand stuff, right? Um, I've been telling my friends, right. For distribute. So my SAS company, right. We, you know, we're, we're not huge, like 12 employees or something right now, but for that, you know, people are like, you're really in on this brand thing. And like, you're really thinking about it and you from day one. And I'm like, yes, a few reasons. One. And this is software, but like, it's becoming commoditized. Right. I think in a huge way with all this AI and all this stuff, and I think I do think that brand is like one of the last moats out there. It's almost like, it's not going to be as commoditized as water. You know, you've seen liquid debt, you've seen all these great brands, but you can kind of see the power of it, of a great brand from that. And you've, you've mentioned this a few times, right? And you're in a, almost a crowded space, right? Where health and wellness is fairly crowded. I would say probably one of the most crowded spaces and just in general, not So you're big on brand. Like what, what are your kind of like high level thoughts on that? And the way you think about it today?
Robbie: I think brand is all you have, um, you know, unless your business is, um, a network effects business, like a social network or, you know, Airbnb, or if it's some type of, um, economies of scale type business where you're manufacturing and you can provide like the lowest price point. So, you know, I think it's all you have. I think it's all you have. I think it's all you have. If you're a major manufacturer or something like Walmart or Costco or Amazon, again, have network effects like in any other business, all you really have is, is brand and specifically in health and wellness. Like if you're a restaurant, if you're, um, restaurants different too, because food is less easy to copy. So like Chipotle, McDonald's, they have like unique food. It's not going to be the exact same. So if you like the McDonald's burger and that experience, like it's a bit different, but for wellness, it's like. and services-based business, it is brand. We're selling breath, sauna, cold plunge, group sharing. Anyone can do this stuff. And there is a level of excellence in our experience. Our guides are trained 200 hours. We created the training from scratch. We created all the classes ourselves. But brand is the moat. And to me, it's a collection of stories. It's like, why did you start this business? And what's unique to us is we started it. It's unique to Ethereum also. They started it before they could make money from it for a virtuous purpose. And for us, it really was. It's authentic. It was a group of people in a backyard trying to build something. And like now for someone starting a business specifically to make money, it's harder. People want to identify with authenticity and authentic stories like they just do. And so that's like part of society is like you want to be with the winner, the creator, the person who thought of the idea, the uniqueness, the authentic story. And I think brand is so important to like That's what brand is. It's a collection of stories of like why this is being built, how it's being built, who is doing it. Um, so to me, like every touch point, like our sweatsuits are not off the shelf fit or custom design, global streetwear designers, like our towels and our space, our custom design, our breathwork tracks are not, we didn't go and hire a bunch of musicians. And cause we're like two developers with an idea. We like fucking made the breathworks ourself. And so I think for our brand, like we just. care so much about the details for everything like we'll design custom sandwich boards out front of the space with like very specific line we created all our whole own language like that other ship like free flow you know that's something we made up that's like it's a term of like how you can use the space our front desk our stewards our creators our deck hands like there is an entire language our our hardcore customers are called ship heads and so we're creating like a world I'm an authentic world based on our values. And to me, that's why people will choose your thing. It's because like they want to be part of that world also. And so I think for a consumer business, I don't think there's anything like Nike. It's just a brand, you know, and these brands are so powerful because they create an authentic reason for wanting to be part of a group like one I study. I really like in New York is one called Bandit. And it's like a hardcore run club running gear for.
Andy: I've seen them. Yeah.
Robbie: Yeah. It's awesome. And so I'm always looking for like, what do I think is like um cult brands that like carry a lot of emotion and authenticity and like kind of studying that but i'm i think to me what it means is just like telling your authentic story fully like everything about it while you're doing it getting that out as much as possible and then caring about like every detail of your product like even our receipts that you get when you purchase are custom coded in our brand versus just like the standard receipt and again one of these things do they matter no but like it's a because you know, we're caring this much about every part of the experience as a whole, it makes the brand like really have a lot of power behind it.
Andy: Yeah. And it's, that's crazy, man. And you know, you can tell just from the app experience, right? Like the onboarding flow is great, right? Like everything is kind of like thought through and you're almost building like a culture, right? Like your own kind of culture of, of something. And it's funny, I actually have this book, It's actually right behind me. I'll grab it. It's how to start a cult, which is funny. Someone recommended it to me. Right. And they're like, if people have seen this, they're like, dude, are you like just trying to start like a, like actual cult? Like what's going on? Cause Cole has a bad meaning. Right. In general. But, um, someone recommended me to read this because they were like, It's just basically how do you build a brand that people love, you know? And I've started reading it and it's like spot on, right? This guy's like, you know, I think he started a run club, like Cole as well. And he started multiple things. I, uh, you learn a lot from it, like having a statement that like you, you've said it, right? Like you have your own language, like you have your own beliefs, like your enemies are stress and anxiety and you have like, and you like talk about those enemies. And, um, anyways, it's a fascinating book. You should check it out. Um, but everything that you're saying is like describing that, right? Now that you're doing a call, you're doing a world, as you mentioned, it's probably a better way to look at it. But, and he says that, it's like, people have a bad meaning of a cult. Really, it's just a group with similar ideals, right? And similar perspectives on whatever they're doing.
Robbie: It makes people feel like they belong. And like, Apple's the number one cult of all time. And it's like, their best performing advertisement was like, Think Different, like for the rebels. And everyone inside had a piece of them that they believed was rebellious. Like, nobody wants to be part of some huge establishment. And so it was like, so successful, but it's just because they, you make people feel like they belong and like building belonging is one of our core values. So it's like, how do we make people interested in the mission, which is like where most companies like, you know, especially in brick and mortar, it's like, Hey, I'm going to build this one space. It's so fucking hard. It's really hard to think about brand and like big vision when you're just like one space, you know, when you create a category, it's like a little bit different. And we've been thinking about that stuff since. Start and it holds weight that like yeah, we made this in our backyard. We created it. It's different than like, yeah We saw it and copied it. So I think that's The customer's not stupid they recognize and they want to go, you know, that's why like in spin their soul cycle. There's not really another Now they're the main one and jim's there's like equinox, you know, maybe lifetime has done a good job But there's kind of even though there's tons of competition in these things. There are brands Like in shoes, there's not really an innovative advantage there. And it's Nike, you know, and it's, it's, it's the authentic storytelling and community building. I think it's like for consumer based businesses, it's like essential. It's really important.
Andy: Yeah. And you know, I, I had this crazy idea and people think I'm fucking crazy for this, but I'll tell you, like we're a software company somewhere, you know, you have all this sugar. And I was singing and you know, we get these questions. Um, we raised money like, Hey, are you going to do an office? And I'm like, Nope, no, I'm not going to do an office. I'm going to do a space where everyone would get together. Like what kind of space? I'm like, well, if you think about our brand, it's like Mexican data, dead themed. It has like a very Mexican full vibe to it. We've got Spanish where I'm Mexican. You probably can't tell. I like to say I'm the widest Mexican you'll ever meet. But, um, you know, you can't, you can't really tell, but that's my culture. And I'm like, what if we had literally like, you know, software company besides you, I've known does this is like a physical space where people can hang out. Because we're a Mexican brand, what if it was like a spot where people can go literally like a taco shop that was from a software company, like how crazy would that be? Right. But it was somehow related to the brand, right. And we did that. And it was a space where you can get together with people have meetings, tacos, coffee, you know, tequila, whatever, if you if you drink, But like we were thinking that people are like that's fucking crazy, but it might work Yeah, who doesn't like Mexican stuff right and I'm yeah I
Robbie: I think over time it creates value and it's just tough because it's intangible. You can't put a number on it, but it makes sense. Even software is branded. I hate Microsoft Teams. I think it's a terrible interface. When somebody sends me a link, I literally have a feeling of like, this is disgusting. Versus when I'm using Zoom, it's like, oh, this is a nice flow. It just feels like things are in the right place. Same with Notion. Kind of you know chosen notion because it's like designer software. It's nice. It's like has a feeling When i'm using it and and so everything is branded to some Degree, you know and it creates a feeling people are using it.
Andy: Yeah. Yeah. Well, well robbie, man I don't want to keep you too long. I know we're a little over here. Um, but dude, this has been great when i'm in new york i'm gonna stop by the uh funny enough we're doing a uh, i'm putting together a We're there for some event doing like a dinner there for, you know, some like sales and marketing leaders, but I'm going to be doing a fun run on the morning of, I think the 20th or something. And I'm inviting a bunch of people. Um, so shoot, maybe we do that.
Robbie: And then after go to other ship or something, we have a lot of, um, run clubs that happen in the morning and they do the run down the West side highway and then back and then end with another ship class. And so we should do a morning run into, yeah, let me know. Let's do it. Just email me about it.
Andy: I'll email you about it. Yeah, let's do it. Cause we're going to, we're going to, we're inviting a crap ton of people. So I don't know how many will show up, but cause you know, waking up at seven or whatever, but yeah, that'd be fricking awesome. And then we can promote other ship and all that stuff too. So dude, I'm happy to do that. It'd be awesome, man. Well, Robert, it's been great, dude. Thank you. I'll email you about that stuff, man. If I can help with anything, let me know. I'll let you know when I'm in Toronto or New York or any of that. I know that they're pretty close. So, um, yeah, man. And I'll email you about this stuff and dude, um, Austin, let me know when you decide on doing Austin. I'm telling you. Austin is a fucking awesome location for other shit, man.
